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Mixsynth · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:57 pm Post subject: 16v fuel pump too noisy

Anyone have this trouble? At idle I hear this constant pitched whining coming from the fuel pump, it sounds fairly 'rattly' too. To me it means "help, I'm on my last legs, replace me".

Is that the case? Is it on its way out? Or could it be something else? Would I be losing any power because of it? I'm sure it wasn't this noisy when I first got the engine working...
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Scott Sander · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:52 am Post subject:

Only time my fuel pump is a bit noisy is when it is low on fuel. Maybe there is an issue with the fuel pressure Confused

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Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com

ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:35 pm Post subject: re : pump

hi!

too big an amount of noise is NOT normal
if your pump is noisy, this can mean two things :
1) the pump is dead, or
2) the pump is making a too big effort

very often, 1 is the consequece of 2.
so i'd check for :
-clogged tank breather causing excessive negative pressure in the tank
-faulty power supply (check that you have a good full 12V at least on the pump terminals with engine running)
-rusted tank (i had the problem, see post on this forum, the tank rusts a fat lot on the 33's from the inside), and rust/debris have clogged the suck pipe
-clogged hose
-clogged fuel filter (if it's older than 20 000 kms relplace it anyway ; hint : you can cut the old fuel filter with an hacksaw to see its shape : if you happen to have rust/brownish colour in the filter, this means "check your tank!!!")
-clogged accumulator
-faulty fuel pressure regulator
-clogged return line to the tank

you can add an inline pressure gauge to check your fuel pressure, and find the faulty element (except if the clogging is before the pump and not after it)
if the system is clogged somewhere, just changing the pump will make the problem go away, but only for a few months, then the new pump will begin to wear and the noise will come back...so my advice is :
first check the whole system (this includes removing the tank and checking pressure) ; replace any hoses and clamps that look suspect to you. if you find a problem somewhere, don't skip the rest of the tests since you can have a double failure (for example crud coming from the tank can block the system at various places) ; when everything is ok then only you can decide to replace the pump.
if you replace the big $$$$$ expensive pump, at least replace the fuel filter and clean the tank at the same moment.

i ignored this advice earlier in my life and ended up with a recurring problem, which cost me four $expensive$ fuel pumps (the car had two fuel pumps, replaced two times each). the culprit was a cheap rubber hose, which was collapsing from the inside.

regards,
zp

Admin · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:24 pm Post subject:

Hi

Worth mentioning that the fuel pump is a fairly generic Bosch item and can be got for about half the price Alfa charge. Used in loads of GM cars with different electrical connectors.

All the best

Keith

Mixsynth · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject:

Thanks for replies guys. Basically the fuel tank is new, the fuel lines have been installed from scratch with many new sections and clamps. We've used the right size tubing, except in the fuel pickup which is from the 8v carb setup but I was told that it wouldn't make a difference. Basically the pump was always noisy, right from day one - the filter looks new (and had new jubilee clips and hose into/out of it) so I don't think it's that.

The only thing I could think that would make the pump struggle, then, is the pickup pipe between tank and pump. The opening on the suction end of the fuel pump is wider than the tube that comes from the tank and we used a pipe of intermediate diameter to bridge the two (clamped hard at the narrow pickup pipe end and squeezed tightly over the wide fuel pump end). But as I said I understood it didn't matter... could that in fact be a problem?
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Matty Dog · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject:

Just wondering if you ever got this sorted out?

I've just done the 16V into a series 2 conversion and the fuel pump makes a hell of a racket.
Only done a couple of test runs as there are still a few details to be ironed out, but I really need to do something about the noise.

Mixsynth, like you, I have also used the series 2 fuel-pickup with the narrower diameter pickup tube and I can't help but think the pump has to work pretty hard to get fuel through that hose.

I used the old 8V pickup because the 16V pickup was in poorer condition.
Just wondering if you've resolved this issue by replacing the pickup or found another solution.

The pump is bolted (with isolating rubber mounts) to the side of the spare-wheel well.

While I'm thinking about it, thanks to all those who have posted in the past about this conversion. All related threads have been scrutinised and have been invaluable.
Mixsynth, every time we had a problem or a question, you seemed to have already asked the question and got the answer. The information was invaluable.

Cheers,
Matthew

johnboy · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

I've just done the 16V into a series 2 conversion and the fuel pump makes a hell of a racket.
Only done a couple of test runs as there are still a few details to be ironed out, but I really need to do something about the noise.

Hi matty dog

i did my conversion last year so you must have read some of my posts,as for your fuel pump,mine is abit loud,but i had a lancia delta hf turbo and that pump was abit noisy.
now it mite be the pickup being to small but i have had no problem with fuel starvation at high revs.you've mounted it in the same place as me and the the 8v lines like me it's strange? how old is the fuel filter? as that could cores it
have you used the 16v rad or 8v as i used the 16v one as its bigger and thought it would keep the engine cool which it does.let me know how you get on.

all the best john
_________________
WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!

Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet

Guest · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:

It's not just a bit noisy, it's comically raucus!

The fuel filter is probably good suggestion.
I'm just using the one that was in the doner-car and it is of unknown history.

I might have to clean up the old pick-up, replace the broken terminal and use it. I'm really not looking forward to struggling with the fuel-tank again.

I've just used the 8V radiator for now, with an aftermarket fan mounted on the front. Is this not really sufficient for cooling the 16V motor?

If I was to do the conversion again, I would try and get a couple of very small fans to mount on the back of the radiator, as I've had to modify the bumper and grill to make room for the fan. Could be mistaken for a supercharger!

Matthew

Maze123 · Alfasud Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Denmark

Matthew, I've heard that the 8v radiator should give enough cooling to the 16v under "normal" conditions, but if you plan to race it would cause some problems...

Regards Mads
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 16v '88 QV
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=2498

Mixsynth · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject:

Hi Matty and others,

The conversion is running well 5 months after completion. The power increase above 4,500rpm is amazing. It still scares me because the wheels almost always spin at more or less any speed below 50mph. It does need some tuning work though - it runs rough between 1-2k rpm. There's also a bit of tappet rattle (or at least what sounds like it) coming from the nearside (left) cylinder bank. Maybe it's a dodgy injector? I don't know.

The fuel pump is still noisy. It's definitely noisier than it should be, although it seems to be working fine. Maybe it does have to work hard to get fuel through the series 2 pickup tube - but other people have reported no such fuel pump noise when they did the conversion with the smaller pipe. So maybe it's a fuel filter issue? Well maybe - but the filter looks newer than most of the other parts. I wonder what the life expectancy is for fuel filters?

And yes, to answer the last point made here, I used the 8V (smaller) radiator and it is perfectly adequate. I was driving it all over the country in mid-august at the height of a heatwave and the cooling fan (again the original 8V fan, not the larger 16V variety) always managed to cool the engine down if the temp went too high. You do have to modify the cooling fan to get it to fit though - we cut the spokes off at the bases and simply rotated/re-welded them so as to place them away from the cambelt cover. We've found no problems with this arrangement.
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

bron · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:31 am Post subject:

wow, this is a really informative thread! I just had a question though... I've got an '85 33 and when I turn the key (but don't start the engine) the fuel pump is really noisy. Is it supposed to be working then? Also, it's not so noisy that I can hear it much when it idles so would it be a problem?

Maze123 · Alfasud Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Denmark

Bron, I can hear the fuel-pump too when I turn the key without starting the engine. But only for app. 1 sec. I guess you can call it an electric sound..! Smile

I suppose it's because it has to create some pressure in the system.

Hmm, is your engine an I.E.?? I've heard that Alfa started using the injection-engines from '88...

Regards Mads
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 16v '88 QV
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=2498

bron · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:25 am Post subject:

it's twin carb