Alfa Pages

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

ok, i got the sports cat today.
Not impressed !
1, no fitting kit, have to wait until tomorrow.
2, bends are considerably narrowed
3, thread for lambda probe continues too deep
4, clamp welded onto pipe to far up (will cause turbulance when gasses pass it)
when i had a powerflow system made for my 8v the bends didnt narrow at all.
I paid £300 for this, would you guys/dolls be happy with this?

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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

well i showed it to my alfa garrage who race prepair 33's and they would be happy with it so...
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x2 33 16v
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lee16v · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject:

Hey, If they're happy.........................

Looks like a good clean job though. I can't see that the narrowed bends would make too much difference to performance as the bore of the pipe is sizeable. Did you keep it to the 50mm diameter of standard ones?

paulb · Alfasud Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Twickenham

Al,

Sorry to say it - but it looks so similar to a Cat I bought a couple of weeks ago from 'CATS4LESS.com' - but mine only cost £146 all up. Not a perfect fit either, but got there in the end.

It seems the CAT is a mass produced fixture, with pipework in and out 'matched' to the original for the 33. I was advised to ignore 'sports' versions as it's the front and back sections that can lend something to the performance, the bit in the middle is there purely to deal with the muck that the car chucks out.

You'll probably find the guys fitting yours will need to knock it about a bit to get it to fit, as was the case with mine!
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paulb

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Paulb, that’s because mine is from there also Laughing

you were advised to ignore 'sports', hmm, have I just wasted £150 odd? Should I just get a normal cat? The differences as I understand are that the Cells Per Inch (CPI) are 400 in a standard cat and 200 in a sports with more precious metals to do the same job as a standard cat but allow free err flowing gasses which = more power.
It says "Don't hit the catalytic converter with a mallet, hammer or chisel gun to try and force it into place. Doing so may fracture the monolith and invalidate the warranty."

lee16v, its all stock as I just ordered it off the shelf and is 50mm

The saga continues.
Fitting kit didn’t arrive, so I called them and asked for a call back, no one called me back.
I called later and spoke to someone who said that he would call me back. He did call me back and said that no fitting kit is available. I said that I was not too pleased as it was confirmed by the person I placed the order with on Saturday that a fitting kit will be supplied. This was told to me twice. Then when the cat arrived with no fitting kit I called and again was told that a fitting kit will be sent straight away and arrive the next day.
I’ve lost 2 days pay now going on for three, as car sounds like a low flying aircraft and I’m sure not legal to drive "unless I’m on my way to a garage to have it fixed". He offered a full refund and for cat to be collected and said if I can find a kit he will pay for it. He said that most suppliers use the same manufactures and he looked around for 1 but couldn’t find any.

I spoke to my Alfa garage who said, there are 2 types of gasket, early types (now obsolete) and later (which mine is) which is not available in UK or Italy part no 60547140 £3.
How annoyed am I? I can’t reuse my gasket as it has a leek already and bolts are seriously corroded, you can’t use exhaust paste before cat. I now have to spend another day sourcing a gasket and then possibly wait another day for delivery.

I will speak to the other cat supplier and check if they can supply a fitting kit, failing that surely any 50mm copper gasket will do with copper washers and nuts.

This is BigAl siging off, very pi**ed off
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Well iv sent it back, im getting a SS powerflow system made from manifold back and reusing my original cat (if its ok) for only £100 more and its 57mm.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

Rich B · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject:

Probably too late now Al, but I just found out that Longlife do a sport cat (www.longlife.co.uk) and could make you a stainless centre section with sport cat. Might be worth a look - I'm gonna investigate it at some point

ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Exhaust paste can be used anywhere in the exhaust pipe, which includes manifold gaskets and cat gasket.
However gaskets can be made from any thick copper sheet.

regards,
zp

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Rich B
My car is booked in for this Friday. It has been fixed so I can drive. Yes I saw them " www.longlife.co.uk " but there too far away for me, thanks any how.

ZeNiTh-PbArM
You’re not supposed to put paste anywhere before the cat, as it breaks off and can foul "plug" and damage the monolith of the cat.

I’m looking at £350+vat for the following.
From the end of the manifold back "mid and rear section" in 2 1/4"" "57mm" Stainless steel @2mm thick.
They will be cutting out my original Alfa cat and welding a short length of pipe for lambda probe with 2 flanges on, 1 either end. This will be fitted to end of manifold, then rest of the system joins onto this.
They will be making a hole in the manifold to fit lambda probe into, a hole in the cat section is so I can put lambda probe in when I get my CSC exhaust, as I am not drilling into that.
They will be making a de-cat pipe to replace cat section, with a hole in it for lambda probe. The de-cat part is for if and when I take my car to a track day, I haven’t decided yet. Will it be worth it?

I hear you all say "£350 and that doesn’t include a new cat, only your old cat" and that’s only if my cat is any good, otherwise another £100 or so for that!

I will ask them to quote for a copied CSC crossover manifold, incase I can’t get one.

I know exhaust tuning is a fine art, back pressure, crossover, free flowing, equal length primaries / secondary ect ect and have a few questions.

Is 57mm enough considering this is 16v? I ask this because on my 8v I went from standard "47mm" I think, to 57mm, a 10 mm difference, I obviously cut the tail end of the manifold right back to where it joins 2 into 1. I had Kent Fast Road Cams, ported heads and K&N air filters on that 8v and it went ok, a little low on torque.
Now considering this is a 16v and has more exhaust gasses passing out due to the 2 smaller exhaust valves being larger than the single exhaust valve on the 8v, is a difference of 7mm to much or not enough?

If I get a CSC crossover manifold copied, should I stay the original diameter or do what was done on the 8v 1.7 compared to the 8v 1.5, where it stepped up in diameter, enabling bolts to be removed?

Thanks in advance, soon to be Bigger Bore Al
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

The saga continues...
Far far away, in an alfa........
So... here goes. My cat was collected Thursday last week and I was told that once they received it they will fully refund me, which would take 3 days. I assumed 3 working days so that would make Wednesday, given that they should get the cat on Friday. So I checked my bank account yesterday and no joy. I thought id give them a days grace, so I checked again today, guess what, no joy. So I called them today, was given excuses that they have only just checked that they have received it, asked for my card details and said that a refund will be done now. Now this will take another 3 working days from now, taking it to Tuesday next week. Considering it should have been refunded and back in my account yesterday I’m now not able to get my system fitted tomorrow, as paying for that system to be fitted will take me over my overdraft and I will incur charges. I have had to cancel my fitting. I will reschedule it when I can.
I am not too pleased to put it mildly.
Have I offended the Alfa gods? Why do the Alfa Gods not want my car to be lavished with a SS exhaust system?
Any one got any answers about bore size?
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

Rich B · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject:

any joy with your sport cat yet Al? Have you decided on what to do with the manifold yet? Still no news on mine!!

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Sorry to hear that Rich B, im still waiting for a call from gazzella RE manifold.
I will be getting a system made from manifold back but other things have come up, like Tax and insurance due soon. So exhaust has been patched up for now.
No one has replied about header (manifold) bore size Sad

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x2 33 16v
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Rich B · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject:

I know the feeling, seems Gazzella are a bit slow in their communications - I'm gonna chase them for some info soon, I'm sure they'll come up with the goods eventually!!

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Sorry guys, I forgot to update this one.
I had the SS exhaust system done 30th august 2007, by Power flow and was not impressed.
I said I wanted a deeper rumblier noise, by using a larger back box and a rolled out end pipe. They measured the box and said they would order it in along with the exhaust tip.
When it came for my car to be done, they didn’t get the tail tip or correct box and had to fit a smaller one, making it too loud.
The monkey that did it spent 1 hour using an air saw cutting the pipe at the end of the cat. I told him the back box only came off last week and it would be quicker and easier to remove now and then take the cat section off and use their large circular grinder/saw to cut the pipe off. “Are you doing this exhaust or am I” was his reply.

After cutting through the pipe, he then undid the rear box clamp and tried to loosen that joint. I had to intervene and hold the back box, as he was scraping off the under seal with his stupid attempt.
I was not impressed at this point and wanted to say stop what you’re doing and get someone here who knows what their doing, but I suffered in silence.
When fitting the system I said that the cat is sitting to low, they are a very tight fit and it needs to sit higher, he said that’s the natural position and yes then scraped where it didn’t before!
To top it all off he then proceeded to use a hammer to knock the original back box tailpipe hanger out the way to make room for a bracket bolted into the hole where the little rubber bump stop was and cut some of the rear valance away.

What a stupid idea, exhausts are under constant vibration and movement and within a week it had worked loose and that bracket was now hitting the valance!

They didn’t do from the end of the manifold to the front of the cat either! So didn’t get the decat section or my spare cat prepared to be hot swappable if mine fails emissions.

Then the cam belt gave up and didn’t get the chance to get it sorted until today.
That guy has been sacked and the owner did the work, he removed the back box section and re did it, moving the original hanger back into position and using one of them to support the box.
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

popped over to see Paul H today. So did it sound better?????
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

I gues he wasnt inpressed.
Well, it has become loose yet again, but this time its not the rear hanger but the one before i think. Why they dont just copy the original design is beyond me??
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

paulhide · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject:

Yes Al it sounded pretty good. Very Happy

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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Getting annoyed about my exhaust. I went to set of for my long journey and noticed that the tail pipe was loose again! I phoned them up on Saturday morning and was told thet he couldnt do anything today and to come over Monday. So i had to do my longg journey with a very loose tail pipe, which luckly didnt knock on anything. I took it in today and he asked me to bring it back at 16:00. This time it is the bracket before the last one that has come away from the body. Didnt he check the state of it whilst refitting the end of the system??!!
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

I got a phone call later that day to say bring it in tomorrow, which i said was unaceptable and was asked to bring it in at 17:00. After a nearly heated debate and being handed a hanger and told to do it myself, i nearly got what i wanted.
Last time i was there he put one of thse stupid fixed hangers that screw into the bodywork or into the hole of a hanger, that had now been ripped off the body work, after i explicitly said i dont want any of thos type of hangers used. If i had seen it i wouldnt have accepted it, so now im an original hanger down. I was getting frustrated trying to explain that a hanger of this type, a half circle with a hole in it which a hanger is pushed through, with a bolt on the flat side held on with a nut, is not going to last very long as it will put more stress on a hanger compared to a rubber o-ring, proved by it lasting 2 days, but I eventially got my own way!!!
He was insisting on adding another of these stupid hangers on the rear valance. The tail pipe is only held on with 1 instead of 2, on the rear hanger!! Now another has been added on the square box, going from rear to front.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Well, the other day i noticed a knocking and paul had a look, as i wasnt dressed for it and was there getting some bits and the metal bracket that was used to go onto the solid ruber that pulled away the original hanger that had been on ther for 15 years, is hitting the tubular bodywork, after i saw assured that it wouldnt hit. Phoned them today and will arange a time for me to pop over and get them to cut it away. FFS!!!!
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

Anyone got any ideas on where to get a coper gasket copied, as in alfa part no 60547140. I am having problems sourcing one. I could take my spare new one to get copied before i use it but dont want to use it until i have a spare one.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

bobbber · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

http://www.alfa-service.com/alfa/index.php/cat/c937_1-7-IE-16V-KAT.html/XTCsid/f0c4ea8523b3daa41ab6bb7147f486e5

Bob
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Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

can you have a look for us bobbber?
Part is no longer available in U.K, waiting for a call back to confirm this by doing a dealer search, one place has found one but is in Itialy and will go on back order.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

bobbber · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject:

Yes mate... they should have some on that link I sent you.

**EDIT** sorry. Goto www.alfa-service.com, select SHOP, and then put the alfa part number in :

You don't need an account to do this, or to order from them.

Hope that helps!

Bob
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Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: U.K Surrey

thanks, shipping 12,50 € lol
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203