Alfa Pages

Ben_nz · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:57 am Post subject: Supporting car with jack stands

This is probably a dumb question.
I bought myself some really cheap stands so I could jack up my car for oil changes or whatever.
But of course they aren't compatible with the funny jacking point which the crappy factory Alfa jack uses.
After I've jacked up one of the corners of the car, where can I safely position the stand so it'll take the weight of the vehicle once the jack is removed? I have visions of the car falling on my head when the stand punches its way through some flimsy piece of floorplan, or when the car slides off the stand because the skinny seam I supported it on skeetered across the flat top of the jack stand and over the lip on the edge. Shocked

Guest · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:59 am Post subject:

Hi Ben
I've often used the stands under the rear pivot of the wishbone, there's a sort of cone that the bolt goes through and naturally it's quite strong for the suspension loads.
Regards Eddie

gritsop · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:55 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I have also two three-feet stands with 3 levels adjustable height in order to jack up the car for various reasons.I use these along with a hydraulic jack (2 ton).
When I want to lift the front of the car I use the jack along with a small piece of wood about 15x5 cm by placing them in the middle of the front crossmember (in the place where the antiroll bar is tightened I think)
Then I place the stands in the ends of the crossmemer where the two big bolts are located. My stands have a top shape like the following :\_/
So, they are safe to do anything even being under the car.

For the rear I do the same, lifting the car from the middle of the bar with the jack. I dont use the wood but only the jack's top surface as it has some "grooves" and it is adequate enough to lift it and place the stands in the rear support points.

Generally it is a good practise for safety reasons to support the car only with stands and not with the jack alone since droping the car may have unwanted results ... Shocked

All the best,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Ben_nz · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:42 am Post subject:

Thanks, I'll look for the spots you guys described next time it stops raining. =)
There's supposed to be a jacking point in the centre of the front of the car under the radiator.. it's a bit of metal like an inverted pyramid. On my car this has been mangled by various driveways and speed humps over the years, so I'm stuck using the side jacking points unless I buy a proper wheeled hydraulic jack thing. I'm hoping I don't end up spending enough time under the car to justify that purchase. Wink

Eddie W · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:14 pm Post subject:

That's not a jacking point in the middle of the front xmember, it's a towing eye which usually gets mangled out of recognition by lifting the car with a floor jack at that point. I've cut it off most of mine because thats the logical place to use a floor jack. One of our cars came with a stuffed motor courtesy of someone jacking under the sump and and breaking the cast oil pickup. Something to keep an eye on at tyre crowds as I've had to stop them several times from jacking under the sump. Originally I made a stepped wooden block to fit around the towing eye for jacking.
Regards Eddie
_________________
A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

Ben_nz · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:47 am Post subject:

gritsop · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:06 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Here is an image from the official 33 s1 workshop manual about the support points:

Yes, these two big bolts is the place where i place the stands - Depending on your stands top area you might need to place a wood as intermediate medium. Mine is not need as the stand's area fits exactly to the bolts.

However, the places that you indicatated with the red/yellow arrow are not the suitable - you will have dangerous problems using them.

Regards
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Eddie W · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:51 am Post subject:

Yes Ben
The area as you've indicated in red. I have supported my cars on stands there many times without detriment. The loads are resolved through the floorpan and the firewall. The jacking points would be my first choice but if your axle stands have quite a narrow U piece at the top then using the factory points can be a bit nervewracking unless you have them placed perfectly central. All owners of earlier 33s should be aware that if there is any serious rust at the rear of the sills where they join the wheelarch then the inner section that braces the sills and therefor supports the rear jacking point canbe non existamt , seriously weakening these points to the point of partial collapse. And that's enough points for now.
Regards Eddie
_________________
A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

Ben_nz · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject:

I got my car jacked up onto the jackstands okay, using some wooden brackets that fit between the two big bolts on the front crossmember.
But then I went to change the oil and found that the sump plug and the gearbox oil plug are some funny type I don't have a tool for. Mad

Instead of being a protruding bolt head (like in the picture in the owners manual) they're a recessed socket which looks like it will require a giant Allen key or similar.
What is the correct tool and its size?

Guest · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:59 am Post subject:

Hi Ben
It's a bloody 12mm which seems to be like rocking horse droppings out here . I cut a section off a 12mm allen key and use it in a 12mm socket as it's the same for the filler /level plug on the gearbox
Regards Eddie

Ben_nz · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:15 am Post subject:

Rocking horse droppings alright! I bought a hex key set today, and after looking at the whole range in the shop the largest size any of the sets went up to was 10mm. Needless to say, when I got home I found the biggest one in my new set was too small. Rolling Eyes

I will start asking around the shops to see if I can get hold of a 12mm one. Otherwise I may resort to buying a bolt of the right size, loading it up with nuts and sticking it in the 12mm socket from my socket set. Confused

bobbber · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:24 pm Post subject:

That's exactly what we ended up doing.

There were marks all over the oil plug where previous owners had cut it with a hammer and chisel - but we decided to make up a tool for doing it.

We took two 12mm bolts and welded them together - like this :

|---- -----|

Works ok!

Rob
_________________
Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

Eddie W · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:09 pm Post subject:

Hi Ben
Pretty sure I've got some allen key left if you get stuck. Could cut you off some. 2798748
Regards Eddie
_________________
A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

Ben_nz · Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:23 am Post subject:

I tried the bolt thing today, filed down the head of an M8(?) bolt from 13mm to the correct size. Once I got enough power on the bolt though, the shaft twisted in half because it wasn't made of real deal steel. Sad

After that happened twice I took my filed bolt head (just right), 7/16" allen key (slightly small), 13mm nut (slightly large) and a selection of sockets etc and marched to the automotive parts store.
Came back with a T-60 size star-shaped (torx?) attachment and an adapter for my socket set, and it worked! Very Happy

It's not the greatest fit, but it did the job and the engine oil is finally changed.
Tomorrow - fun with the gearbox oil!

Roberto · Guest

Buy a drain plug set from AutoStop and it will solve your oil change problem. The beauty about it is it won't screw up the sump plug in the long term. The set also allows you to work on cars like Pug and Subaru. The cost is around NZ$70.

Regards,
Roberto

Ben_nz · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:50 am Post subject:

What is included in the drain plug set? How many replacement plugs, and what kind?
The filler plug on the gearbox is pretty munched. A new one would be nice if every time I open it is going to be as difficult as the last time (factory spark plug tool makes handy ratchet handle extender for leverage!)...

Roberto · Guest

The set includes 12 keys of different sizes and a lever. As for the drain plug itself, buy a new one with a washer form an Alfa dealer. Also, using full synthetic oil does make a difference with Alfa gearboxes.

Happy motoring.

Roberto

Guest · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject: sump plug

Bought a 12mm allen key from a toolshop with a bar for about 20$AUS. It works well. Also have found that I can fit the sump plug without a washer and it work perfectly OK. It would appear that the plu is in some sort of drain type syste, which when you loosen it off allows the oil to drain even though the plug is not fully removed.

Buck Bundy · Alfasud Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 68 Location: Anglesey

I have a tool which is 12mm one end and 19mm the other to fit into a 19mm socket. It came with its own bar to fit through the middle, but it is better with the socket as there is much more flexibility with different types of levers - very handy when screwed up under the car!

I got it in Halfords (car superstore).

Buck
_________________
Sprint Veloce 1.5 - Ebay £310!!! (In need of TLC)